UCS under fire for Biz Frosh chants

The Undergraduate Commerce Society is currently under investigation from UTM administration for promoting discriminating and lewd behaviour during their orientation week, titled Biz Frosh in September last year. Last October, two students sent separate emails to UTM Student Union vp equity Saaliha Malik raising their concerns over some of the cheers chanted during the Biz Frosh event. According to Malik, complaints over the Biz Frosh cheers have been coming in for years, but no one has taken any action until this year when the two students, both of whom remain anonymous, filed a formal complaint and a statement citing that they hoped UTMSU would take some form of action on the matter.

Some of the chants that have stirred up the controversy contain several explicit references of a sexual nature, such as one entitled What do you we do. The words to this cheer include, UTM Boys what do we do?/ (boys – make stroking motion) Cum, Cum, Cum, Cum, Cum on you/UTM Girls what do we do?/ (girls) spit, spit, spit, spit, spit on you.

Another one titled Young, includes a verse that is perceived to be highly derogatory towards women and highly suggestive towards underage sex: Y is for your sister/O is oh so tight/U is for underage/N is for no consent/G is for Go to jail/Y-o-u-n-g UT boys we like em young!

According to sources within UCS, most of the chants were written by past Biz Frosh leaders, while some are universally known and practiced during orientation weeks throughout several universities in North America.

At first, Malik tried to meet with some of the UCS council members sometime in late November to get the council to act on the complaints by adapting the policy that UTMSU adapted on sexual harassment and discrimination across campus and campus events.

I met with Jyotin [Handa], president of UCS in November, and he seemed to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation, and I was under the impression that he and UCS council members were willing to adopt the policy and cooperate in the matter so as to not have this sort of incident repeat itself in the future, explains Malik. However, after meeting with the incoming council on February 26, it was evident that the UCS council was unwilling to recognize their responsibility to adhere to any of the policies on sexual harassment and discrimination.

The UTMSU policy was developed and implemented by Malik at the beginning of the academic year with the intention to eliminate any form of discrimination and sexual harassment during all campus related events.

Another primary reason why the policy was put in place was because of a similar incident involving the student union itself during UTMs Orientation (Frosh) Week. UTMSU are due to submit a report to the Principals Advisory Committee on March 6 detailing the incidents during Frosh Week which also brought about a complaint from one student regarding certain homophobic cheers.

The UTMSU Policy on Harassment, Sexual Harassment and Discrimination outlines the definitions of sexual harassment and discrimination along with the scope, objectives and complaint procedure of such incidents. It also stipulates that examples of harassment, sexual harassment and discrimination can include sexually oriented remarks, gestures, materials, cheers, announcements including internet, telephone, fax and e-mail messages or other behaviour which may reasonably be perceived to create a negative psychological or emotional environment at an event, work, and/or campaign.

While the policy applies to all UTMSU staff, board of directors, executive committee members, orientation leaders, ministers, work-study personnel, UTMSU cannot sanction any campus club or academic society to strictly adhere to and adopt the policy. They can only mediate and advise an organization to do so, something which Malik had attempted this past week.

UCS have since ignored the complaints and refused to take reasonable measures to address the situation or assume responsibility for the incidents occurring at Biz Frosh, says Malik, who after meeting with the UCS council, passed along the complaints to the University administration and Student Affairs in order for them to take over all dealings on the matter.

Along with Student Affairs, the Department of Management has been notified and is currently looking into the issue. When contacted, Dr. Hugh Gunz, Chair of the Department of Management at UTM, expressed that he was appalled by the content of the chants, which he felt were deeply offensive to many groups and in incredibly poor taste.

Ive heard that it’s being said that the chants are important because theyre part of UCS’s culture. Well, if that’s true, then the culture is going to have to change, because it’s totally inappropriate for any organization in a modern multicultural society, commented Gunz.

The kind of culture that behaviour like this builds is one that creates an in-group by excluding and marginalizing others. Im quite sure that this wasn’t the intention of UCSs leaders, but thats what happens, and its not how we do things at universities, added Gunz, who also announced plans to work with UCSs leaders to make sure that they understand and deal with the situation.

According to Gunz, UCS is an independent student organization which runs its own events. But because some of its funding flows through the department (these funds come from the extra tuition that Commerce students pay) the department holds regular meetings with the UCS president to monitor their activities.

The chant behaviour is all the more unacceptable because we have had complaints in the past few years about it. We have met with previous UCS leaders to explain to them that it shouldn’t happen again. And even after we had their assurance that it wouldn’t, we now find that it has, explains Gunz.

I want to apologize on behalf of the department to anyone who felt themselves excluded from UCS events because, very understandably, they didn’t feel comfortable being surrounded by such behaviour. I also want to thank Saaliha Malik and her colleagues at UTMSU for their efforts in trying to deal with this problem. I share their disappointment that they weren’t able to achieve a resolution.

Gunz went on to stress on how disappointing the whole affair is to the department. In many other respects UCS makes a great contribution to UTM student life. Over the years UCS has run many successful events and has added value to student experience on campus, and I hope that we can move on from this sorry affair so that they can continue to do so.

The department of Management is still in the midst of gathering information on what happened, and will be working closely with the office of the Dean of Student Affairs to ensure that appropriate action is taken. Hence, they are currently not confirmed on how they plan to resolve the issue, although a report from the UCS council, that will determine the departments specific actions on the matter, is due this Monday. If found to be liable, UCS could lose a large percentage of funding from the Department of Management for future year events, such as Biz Frosh, the UCS annual Ski Trip, and the various other academic seminars organized annually by the society.

As well, the Principles Advisory Committee on Diversity and Equity, which is formed of members of the positive space committee at UTM and Principal Ian Orchard, is expected to discuss the matter at their March 6 meeting.

When contacted by The Medium, UCS council member and Biz Frosh coordinator Rick Rizvi and UCS president Jyotin Handa both declined to comment on the issue.

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  • Mavis

    For god’s sake.
    Grow up.
    Its a chant – debauchery is everywhere.
    It may not be right in all circumstances. if you don’t like it don’t do it..
    Look at biz frosh for what it is. A chance to get to know other first year students. A chance to bond.

    Seriously… is the recession gone so bad that students at UTM are sitting at home with no jobs no future that they have resorted to petty accusations?

    Seriously go study or something its exam time soon.

  • Mike

    I agree.
    I think it is a waste of university resources to be engaging in this type of investigation.
    Some of the students have a point. The chants are not the most appropriate.
    But certainly there must have been other avenues for the students to exhaust before wasting MY STUDENT FEES on this type of investigation… for what i remember.. the regular UTM frosh week chants WERE WAY WORST!!!
    this is way out of proportion !!!!!!!

  • Ackson

    This is stupid, sure it’s not right but stuff like this happens. It’s called gang mentality. We all do things that we aren’t proud of. Come on, say it! No? Well I’m sure you masterbate.

    I’ve been to BizFrosh 5 times, its toned down from what it use to be like. I also hear dirty UTM Orientation cheers at Bizfrosh. Any mention of that in the article?

    Like a F*&(% BUNNY!!!!!

    what a F&$&% double standard.

  • Rick

    BizFrosh has been a legendary event around UTM for years now, and these chants have contributed to what makes it what it is.

    “What it is”, is an ever growing event with a record number of 200 students this year getting to know one another in a friendly and exciting manner. There is no animosity or aggression portrayed through the cheers. No one is targeted, and everything is taken with good humour which is why, although hard to believe for some who aren’t at the events, the atmosphere at BizFrosh is extremely positive.

    The same can’t be said about UTMSU Frosh Week where the “negative” cheers are directed at individuals. “What do we think of this person? F**K THIS PERSON!” That does not happen at BizFrosh.

    First years have still praised the event months after it ended and continue to look forward to the next one.

    Take it for what it is, and when you look past this crap that’s been blown out of proportion, BizFrosh will live on strong.

  • Mary

    UTM frosh week was worse
    I don’t see why Biz Frosh is getting all the fire.

    Having said that, I think some of the cheers (at UTM Frosh) are a little TOO sexual, even for me. So you know what I did? I didn’t cheer them. I said “ew, come on guys yuck.” and stood back and watched. And you know what? No one cared. I wasn’t judged differently because of it at all.

    Moral: No one likes a fun sucker. If you don’t agree with it, don’t participate.

  • Kumanan

    If people don’t like it, they shouldn’t go.
    I agree with Mary, why isn’t UTM Frosh week getting any fire for this?

    The chants especially are voluntary. The UCS Exec’s even run through chants before hand and ask if anyone is uncomfortable with them.

    This is obviously a clear effort to sabotage UCS bizfrosh by one or two individuals for some reason.

  • Katie Currie

    I think UCS should have responded better to UTMSU’s request based on the report above…

    .. BUT I agree with Mike above.. escalating to the Principal is absolutely unnecessary.. i don’t think this is the appropriate usage of my student union fees!
    I think other methods should have been used by UTMSU to address the matter.. something more effectively… creating a great big divide among the student population is contrary to what a student union should be doing… UTMSU should be taking action that will rectify the situation not cause a divide that will upset the general student population…. If there are sufficient enough students that don’t want the chants.. then talk it out with UCS.. create a dialogue… and UCS if the students don’t want the chants.. then use something else next year..

    Dont waste my student fees is all i’m asking for…

  • Ivan

    Having been part of both BizFrosh and UTMSU frosh, there are extremely lewd/offensive chants during both events.

    If UCS is going to get crucified for it, UTMSU should be too.

  • Jackie

    Re: Article -If the two “anonymous” students didn’t like it.. why didn’t they talk to the Commerce department themselves? UCS is funded by the department.. if these “anonymous” students were seriously interested in rectifying the situation instead of potentially causing drama…. they should have discussed it with their Dean…

    Re: Ackson – I don’t understand your analogy I masturbate and I’m PROUD of it…
    Didn’t anyone watch Ready or Not on Global growing up or Wonder Years???

  • Yogan

    Don’t waste our student fees? Oh UTM definitely knows how to do that but that’s another topic for another day.

    As many of the individuals eluded to above, there is purely a case of one or two individuals having a personal vendetta against UCS. Let it be known that UCS is much more than a society that likes to have fun. No other society on our campus adds more value back to student experience than UCS does for it’s commerce students. It’s a shame that all of the hardwork our society does is overshadowed by this.

    As Rick and a few others mentioned above, UTMSU Frosh can be held in the same light. I personally recall being on a bus going downtown and having one of the orientation leaders leading the chant “What do we think of the other bus?”….”F*** the other bus”. Is this the type of language UTMSU wants to condone? How about leading by example. Before you start pointing fingers make sure your hands are clean.

    But hey kudos to the medium, its the first time your paper is actually being talked about on my three years on campus.

  • JnS

    Stop trying to turn this on UTM Frosh Week, this is about BizFrosh. Personally, I don’t think “like a f!@#$%^ bunny” comes even close to the BizFrosh cheer “Y-O-U-N-G” that promotes pedophilia, but take it as you may. Targeting specific cheers isn’t going to take the blame from yourselves. BizFrosh is being used simply as an excuse to promote highly explicit content including cheers, chants, gestures that go along with the cheers, flags… and I could go on. The difference between other orientations and BizFrosh is that they go about their actions in a smart, less controversial way. BizFrosh pushes the fact that the participants are super cool, overtly sexual people, when that is just not the case. Trying to spin the blame off onto other orientations is just as disgusting. Take responsibility for your actions.

  • JnS

    Oh and by the way, I suppose BizFrosh LOVES the “young” considering all the underage froshies drinking at the events.

  • Ackson

    yet again, a double standard.

  • Carl

    Response to JnS:
    You would have sounded even half legitimate if you didn’t state what you think BizFrosh is used for. Rick’s definition is what BizFrosh REALLY is. An argument like yours can’t be taken seriously if you’re mixing your accusation and opinion in as a fact (i.e. you suppose BizFrosh participants are in it for a specific twisted reality; you describe participants as one sad character that you are biasedly and incorrectly stating).

    And to comment on the blame of UTM orientation, you would know for a fact it is WORSE and furthermore is towards a larger student body…and is not mentioned, because it would come back to the people who help run it – UTMSU.

    It is not sensible if one hasn’t attended one or both events to comment on it. If you just simply read this article, you will be missing out on the real popularity and probably the best society/club at UTM due to a lack of information.

  • JnS

    Would you please care to explain this so called double standard? I don’t see how leaders in BizFrosh, who openly drink AND fraternize with their froshies is a double standard or an unfair comment to make when this kid of behaviour does NOT happen during frosh week.

  • Ackson

    Underage drinking? I can’t believe these accusations.

    Obviously from “reliable source” who wishes to remain anonymous.

    Coward.

  • JnS

    In response to Carl. I can not understand why you would assume that I have never attended BizFrosh.

  • Mark

    I also attended BizFrosh this year, and beleive it was a great event to get to know students. The two people that made complaints couldn’t see past what was in front of their face to realise that it was a great chance to make friends instead of over reacting.

    JnS – no alcohol was served to the underage students. If they did have any alcohol it was acquired on their own. UCS is not responsible to search every student to ensure that they have no alcohol with them. We are university students, capable of making our own decisions and living with the consequences. If they can make their way up to the camp grounds on their own they are old enough to take care of themselves (especially since their parents gave them the permission to go and act on their own behalf) UCS is not responsible to baby sit, it provided a fun and safe environment.
    JnS statement is completely out of bounds.

  • Jeremiah

    Hello, My Name is Jeremiah.

    I am a Man of God.
    I go to church 2 times a week, observe all the holidays and moments that are involved with the Good Book, and am able to recite verses from nearly every chapter.

    As a second year Commerce Student, At first I thought Biz Frosh was not for me. But I had one friend that told me to go and I would stay with him, so I went. And I must tell you it was the best time! I met many friends, ladies, and council. I did not drink and did not find the cheers very offensive, because it was all a bonding experience. The only thing I would change is to add another day, and make it larger and with more events and drinking for the people that choose to drink.

    Thank You,
    Jeremiah.

  • Ackson

    Well “Carl” I’d assume if you could stand behind your arguments you wouldn’t need an alias.

  • Ackson

    I need not waste anymore time on this miniscule argument.

  • Carl

    JnS,
    You clearly have not attended both orientation events then. If you have, you stayed on the bus (and even then you would have noticed everything going on if you were concious).
    This is not a personal attack, but trying to logically explain how I laughed real hard when you stated this does not happen during frosh week – WRONG!!! MORE THAN YOU KNOW happens in those 7 days! If you haven’t witnessed it, don’t say it never happens! I saw all of what you said and worse that would shut any activity down!

    How is it a double standard? If you cannot see how there can be unfair and totally overblown on a historic society and growing event, then there is no use. And please, do not state a fact if it is not a fact.

  • Ackson

    damn. guess i should refresh this page more often. sorry carl.

  • Sarah

    “I also want to thank Saaliha Malik and her colleagues at UTMSU for their efforts in trying to deal with this problem”

    This line deserves an award for it’s irony. How is UTMSU going around saying BizFrosh is inappropriate and disrespectful when Frosh Week run by UTMSU is waaaaaaaaayyyy worse.

  • Mark

    also if your going to restrict the chanting down to be appropriate… there can’t be any leeway.. that means that all the chants would have to be PG.. and then we’ll see if anyone has any fun at any orientation or event.

  • JnS

    LOL. Carl you make me laugh.

  • Ivan

    Underage drinking is rampant during UTMSU frosh as well, people look the other way cause let’s face it, we were all froshies at some point.

  • Carl

    Ackson: It’s okay! I was confused but I guessed that’s what happened.
    JnS: I’m glad you’re reading my replies! I hope you see – and even better – continue to take part, in UCS.

    To finish up the little e-debate here…it is a low blow to brand BizFrosh/UCS in a negative way. It is all simply great. No harm has been done. I have other opinions and words for the individuals whom complained…
    Anyhow, I look forward to UCS clearing it’s name of this overblown complaint.

  • JnS

    They may be drinking outside of organized frosh events, but frosh leaders can’t control what happens in these people’s private lives. The bottom line is, drinking does not occur during the organized frosh events, like it does at BizFrosh.

  • JnS

    “I have other opinions and words for the individuals whom complained…” and you guys want to talk about singling out people? Amazing.

  • Ivan

    I can assure you it occurs before, after and during organized frosh events, whether you want to believe it or not. Just like at most other Universities during frosh.

  • Johnny Ho

    Hey Everyone,

    Regardless what all your arguements are. Such as saying something as childish as: “It’s a waste of university resources”

    It is absolutely not acceptable for any university related events to be exclusive to any individuals. These cheers tend to promote such negative environment and I understand that it is a tradition for almost all types of orientation events. However since we acknowledged the impact of the negative atmosphere it brings on a some people, we should take action as student leaders to make sure we have an inclusive space. In response to the individual who claims that this response from the university is a waste of money: if student leaders would be more initiative on this issue, no money has to be wasted. In additon it is the lack of responsibilities of these leaders to not adapt the policy thus the university did not want to waste money on them. Thus their funding should be frozen.

    Our VP Equity is trying to make this a safer space for everyone starting with our own orientation. Several new measurements are in place to adpot these changes. I would like to see UCS, clubs and other academic societies be considerate enough to implement it.

  • UCS

    lol JnS did you have a really bad bizfrosh experience or something? what went wrong?

  • Jeremiah

    I disagree Johnny.

    Why should we abide by the rules of the few?

    I agree that no discrimination should be tolerated towards absolutely any party, but this is their choice of attendance and participation. Nothing more.

    Please do not change Christmas into Holiday Day and “What do we think of Johnny?” into “We mildly and humbly disagree with him”

    You are not in commerce, and you are not aware of the bond commerce students share, party to these events they hold.

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah

  • Carl

    “drinking does not occur during the organized frosh events, like it does at BizFrosh” – Wrong. Drinking did occur during events when I was in my frosh year during that week. So, now you know this as a fact. Please continue to state the facts only.

    “I have other opinions and words for the individuals whom complained…â€� – Not singling out. If you must know what I meant by that, since you seem to quickly take things in a misinformed manner, I meant how upset and disappointed I am, and I could comment on their intentions or if there is a personal agenda (or NO agenda for that matter) to complain.
    Not in your quick to justify means of I would single them out. If so, I wouldn’t be civil with you and really hope you continue to seek the real UCS and it’s image although you speak against it.

  • Carl

    To Johnny Ho,
    Any leaders involved with UTM orientation and the bodies who run it should be held responsible for the many more violations on or off the record. Be prepared for a totally politically correct (and totally distasteful) blame game next year for UTMSU as well I would imagine.

    I’m really looking forward to a public hearing on this matter and to get the voice of all students, since two students thus far were heard.
    I’m probably done with comments here…

  • http://vladglebov.com Vlad Glebov

    Interesting discussion, I think Dr. Hugh Gunz has it exactly right.

    “The kind of culture that behaviour like this builds is one that creates an in-group by excluding and marginalizing others. I

  • Johnny Ho

    LOL!

    First to Jeremiah: I am in Commerce.

    To Carl: In fact as we speak, UTMSU is investigating on some incidents that occurred during Orientation Week. The university has also spoke with us and thus we understand how serious the issue can be. I hope you all understand that UTMSU did not freeze the funding for UCS. The university has decided to do so and as student reps, we will try our best to help UCS out of this situation. However we need UCS to cooperate with us in order for us to do so. The reason for the freeze is that the incoming UCS council members do not view this issue as important as we have tried to tell them it is. The university saw how light UCS was taking this issue, and thus decided on such action.

    Anyways! I am not here to argue with anyone, but to clarify the many steps UTMSU has tried to work with UCS and the steps we are taking to ensure an inclusive orientation week next year.

    In addition, even though orientation week may have incidents of alcohol activities, we actually do have strict policies on this. All in all, UTMSU does not promote the consumption of alcohol during frosh week. However I will like to remind everyone that occurrences of and promoting alcohol activities are definitely two separate ideas and intentions.

    Plus, the complaint was not only brought to the attention of UTMSU, but the principle at the same time. The only thing UTMSU can do now, is to help UCS find a better solution to resolve this issue before it escalate further, which I am sure the university is ready to do.

  • Mubashir

    From the perspective of a student leader who has been on the executive council of both UCS and UTMSU, I see both sides to this debate.

    That said, I find it disturbing that UCS is coming under fire for this. I have been a part of 8 frosh weeks: 4 for Frosh Week and 4 for BizFrosh – I have seen, heard, experienced, witnessed…(whatever choice of words you want to use) things first hand during UTMSU Frosh Week as well.

    I am not pointing fingers at UTMSU- rather the individuals who have taken this matter up to Student Affairs: Grow up – this is university, you are adults – if something bothers you, come and talk to your student leaders about it…don’t tattle tale.

    I am not fond of some cheers in particular either and I choose not to be a part of them.

    Ridiculous.

  • Ivan

    Sex pub has jello wrestling, jello wrestling is offensive and objectifies women.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=47313184&id=28107928&op=1&view=all&subj=54114578170&aid=-1&oid=54114578170

    Shall we launch a crusade against the SEC office? Who’s down?

  • Saaliha

    I’m glad that this article has been able to generate so much interest from the student body but I think there are some things that need to be clarified.

    I have read almost all of the discussions on this matter I am not here to argue against UCS or defend my position on UTMSU.

    However, I would like to highlight a couple of important points.

    First of all, when a student and in this case two students came forward with an official complaint I, as VP Equity have an obligation to address their concerns or report it to the University.

    Secondly, despite what you might hear this issue was brought to the attention of UCS (Behind closed doors) in November without any involvement of the administration.

    For the past few months UTMSU and UCS have been in talks about adopting a policy to address the complaints brought forward by students so that we would not have to involve the administration in our dealings.

    However, UCS ultimately made their decision knowing their potential risks (such as pass this on the administration, which I did and UCS was fully aware of my obligations.

    Now, to move forward UTMSU is still willing to work with UCS on adapting a policy and working toward change. I hope that everyone in this discussion understands the responsibilities of the Student Union and University and when complaints are brought forward we must treat them seriously. We have policies in place to protect people not attack them. This is not an attack on UCS as I do believe they are a great society on campus and I have attended their events in the past.

    I am hopeful we can move past this and I look forward to seeing great things from UCS.

    Saaliha

  • Mubashir

    Just to clarify: When I mention, “individuals who have taken this matter up to Student Affairs” – I am not referring to VP Equity of UTMSU, rather the two students that have been complaining.

  • SS

    BizFrosh has given me a university experience. I’ve met long term friends who I can count and depend on.

    An investigation due to the comments of a few caused an outrage of the many, is it well worth it?

    JnS if one is to blame why allow others to get away. An investigation must incorporate all groups that allow such tolerance. So let

  • Johnny Ho

    haha~.. yes i know Mubashir..

    anywayz… IF there is any further comments, it will be really pointless now… its not a debate… I, VP Campus Life, really don’t care what the debate is about. All that I care about are those students who were affected by the discrimination, work towards future measurements to prevent exclusivity and to help UCS resolve the situation with the university.

  • Jackie

    WAIT …. UCS IS NOT A UTM STUDENT SOCIETY THOUGH RIGHT? ITS ON ITS OWN.. UNDER THE DEPARTMENT OF MANAGEMENT…

    SO WHY DOES UTMSU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ON THIS MATTER?

    FUNDING IS EXCLUSIVELY GIVEN FROM MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT….

    UCS IS SEPARATE ENTITY.

  • Hinna

    I liked UCS very much
    I don’t drink… and drinking and chants didn’t bother me.. because I just didn’t participate..
    The ppl there did not force me at all.

    I love ucs because it was the first time I got a chance to go kayaking.. No other frosh does that! I never did that in Pakistan.. But I got a chance now that I’m in Canada.

    That’s also a good point Jackie – isn’t UCS a separate organization not under UTMSU?

  • Mike

    UCS is on it’s own. UTMSU just feels that they need to have control of the campus regardless of what parties are involved.

  • Tasha

    Jackie,

    UCS is an academic society that is funded by the department of management along with sponsorship. All academic societies are under UTMSU.

  • Ivan

    Have we banned Sex Pub yet?

    Obviously it won’t happen, and for the record, I don’t want it to happen. But if you try to please everyone all the time and ensure no one gets offended, the university would have no events at all.

    The fact of the matter is that there’s a certain degree of mature content that comes with going to university (cursing, sexuality etc.) and people just have to accept that instead of living in a bubble of political correctness.

  • Jackie

    Tasha – Umm this is interesting.. I remember specifically during an orientation for those applying for ucs executive positions.. that the audience was informed that UCS is not under UTMSU….

    It may be interesting to investigate this point.

  • Jeremiah

    Johnny,

    Ok how about to include the 2 or 3 that do not enjoy the party atmosphere at BizFrosh, we buy them ear muffs and ear plugs. Every time we make a cheer, we offer them to put ear plugs in (donated by the UCS). It is a win win situation!

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah

  • Razan

    As the previous Minister of Student Life and Associate VP Campus Life I know exactly how much planning and work goes into orientation week.

    I know that UTMSU Leaders are taught to report underage drinking as well as refrain from drinking themselves even if they are of age.

    UTM’s Orientation events, being “dry”, do not make them boring. Many UCS members boast that their events are much more exciting because they allow members to partake in events that include drinking.

    Though leaders for both BizFrosh and UTM Orientation are not baby-sitters, it is their job to watch the younger students and make sure they are making responsible and legal actions. You are their first experience of UTM student life and you should be their ideal role models.

    UCS probably hosts a very popular and fun BizFrosh and I’m sure they put a lot of hard work into their event. However, though I have not attended, it is clearly known that underage drinking happens at BizFrosh. Just look up event pictures on Facebook.

    This issue goes beyond underaged drinking and focuses on foul and vulgar cheers which discriminate against people. The Chicago cheer, which I have personally heard, refers to abortion by pushing a woman down the stairs. How is this appropriate?

    I find it very concerning that people are turning this into a battle between UCS and UTMSU. Saaliha Malik is promptly dealing with a homophobic cheer brought to their attention by a student’s complaint this year. A report is being written to address this issue and to furthur prevent such actions in the future.

    What has UCS done to address their issues except for leaving in the hands of VP Equity to deal with it? Is it fair for UCS to ignore complaints of their student body and force UTMSU to take charge? I don’t think so, but, it must be done. UCS has no right to make UTMSU look like the “bad guy”.

    To my understanding, UCS has known that there was an issue as such for 4 whole months. How strange is it that one of our largest student organizations would not address such a complaint in a timely and organized fashion? It’s very easy to point fingers at UTMSU when you want to get the guilt off your shoulders.

    The truth of the matter is that the UCS executive had a choice to adopt a policy that would help eliminate and show a step in the right direction in cleaning up their acts.

    I learned that mediation between UCS and VP Equity at UTMSU was, clearly, not successful.

    Instead of arguing about who’s cheers are worse, why don’t both parties sit down and see how they can resolve the matter at hand. It is not about which Orientation is cooler or what cheers are worse but rather the complaint of a UTM student who has been negatively affected.

  • Johnny Ho

    like I said… I along with the entire UTMSU is trying to help UCS. We did not put them on the platter and serve it to the university!

    we were trying to warn them for a while because we hear stuff from the university! UCS ignored our warning, we are still trying to talk to their department for a resolution. If all of you love UCS so much, please shut up and let UTMSU help UCS.

  • Iverson

    QUOTE
    “Ok how about to include the 2 or 3 that do not enjoy the party atmosphere at BizFrosh, we buy them ear muffs and ear plugs. Every time we make a cheer, we offer them to put ear plugs in (donated by the UCS). It is a win win situation!

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah

    /QUOTE

    You cannot be serious! This is the dictionary definition of exclusion. You have to consider the feelings of everyone, and your suggestion is only more offensive to those that do not appreciate some of BizFrosh’s activities.

  • Razan

    Also, as a sidenote to all of you who have such an issue with “student fees” being spent on an investigation.

    Give it a break! Our fees go to so many more facets of the school than you or I even know about!

    Enough with the lame, save the student fees; it’s ours, spiel.

    When you buy something at a store it’s and you pay for it, you get the product and the money isn’t yours anymore. When you pay a fee it goes to all factors that affect the university and its function.

  • Jordan

    Lets remember the intentions of Bizfrosh next time we think about attempting to embarass them shall we?
    The UCS is a great study group and Bizfrosh is the best event offered by UTM.
    The individuals who had a problem should have notified their leaders immediately when they were offended…just another case of a small issue being blown out of proportion…

    One problem…we should try to help our fellow students who work very hard in their groups and clubs…not embarass them with a bias article. We all go to UTM so i dont see why this made the newspaper..to discourage people from going to the best event? to criticize UCS? neither is fair. Ill be at bizfrosh next year..best times.

  • Mubashir

    Jordan, you are the best froshie I have had on my team in the 6 frosh weeks that I have been a leader at – and what you said just about sums up everything.

  • SikkthaShocker

    The chants definitely cross the line. Promoting pedophilia is horrible. The people in charge of UCS are being very stubborn about this by refusing to co-operate with UTMSU. They are putting funding at risk, and for what? The right to have a few chants? Very ignorant individuals.

    The individuals in charge of UCS (and I know them) are not being responsible. They are looking out for their personal self interests first. Some of the comments in that article are also irresponsible. As seniors, they should have the interests of every froshie on the trip, but instead, they choose to support the interests of the horny, fratboy, immature types, thus isolating and offending others. As seniors you need to be responsible to others.

    I am pretty sure there are many people who have felt uncomfortable during times at Biz Frosh, but as a whole enjoy the trip. But it doesn’t make it ok to have lewd chants.

    Also to Mr. Mubashir, if the two individuals came to you and complained, would UCS have done anything? Probably not.

    Change needs to be made. I support Hugh Gunz.

    As a closing note – To UCS and your duties. It’s not what you want that you gotta do, but rather what the Commerce population needs.

    P.S. UTSC has a fine Biz Frosh, take an example from them.

  • Jackie

    A careful assessment of all other articles on this website.. will show that this is the ONLY article with the most feedback from the student population.

    It is safe to say that the Student population has spoken.

    This issue has been completely blown out of proportion.

    I rest my case.

  • chen

    I think that this event is really good, from my own experiences, and I think that the actions taken by the department are too drastic.

    I think we should conduct a cost-benefit analysis to find out what the optimal amount of cheers is.

    For example, pollution hurts a lot of people but we do not cut out pollution and drive Flinstone cars, do we? We produce enough pollution to a point where the benefits derived from pollution, for example heat to warm our homes, equal the costs expended to produce these benefits, such as lower air quality.

    I think we need to determine what the benefits of these cheers are and what costs we pay to reap these benefits. We should assign this project to the economics council and conduct the cost-benefit analysis and find the optimal point of cheers.

    I agree that everyone deserves to be in an environment where they are comfortable and there should be a zero tolerance for anything otherwise– but if this situation comes up, speak up for we are adults, we are the best and brightest of our time. We have mouths, if we find something uncomfortable, speak up! And so we have!!

    What we need to do is stop fighting UCS vs UTMSU, we are on the same page here. What we need to do is find a new way to keep our Froshees engaged and do what we as Frosh leaders and coordinators set out to do– offer our Froshees an opportunity to create memories that will last a lifetime, give them the opportunity to learn, and a chance to meet new people.

    Right now, we’re all in the hole– UTMSU, CCT, UCS, and any other orientation committee out there– what we need to do is stop fighting, and we need to work to get out of this mess together. We need to innovate our frosh weeks because what we have been doing obviously has not been working. I say so because even just one voice has said so. Yes, it will be hard to satisfy everyone. Yes, we will probably lose a lot of Froshees that like how we do things now. Yes, this won’t be easy– but you know what, we are innovative leaders and we are facing a challenge– this is university and we are competent adults. This can’t be done over-night, this can’t be achieved in one summer, and we fall before we walk. But if we perservere, if we put in the time, you know what– we will overcome this. We will offer a fresh, new, innovative frosh where everyone is happy.

  • chen

    I think the actions taken are too drastic, but what’s done is done.

    I think we should conduct a cost-benefit analysis to find out what the optimal amount of cheers is.

    For example, pollution hurts a lot of people but we do not cut out pollution and drive Flinstone cars, do we? We produce enough pollution to a point where the benefits derived from pollution, for example heat to warm our homes, equal the costs expended to produce these benefits, such as lower air quality.

    I think we need to determine what the benefits of these cheers are and what costs we pay to reap these benefits. We should assign this project to the economics council and conduct the cost-benefit analysis and find the optimal point of cheers.

    I agree that everyone deserves to be in an environment where they are comfortable and there should be a zero tolerance for anything otherwise— but if this situation comes up, speak up for we are adults, we are the best and brightest of our time. We have mouths, if we find something uncomfortable, speak up! And so we have!!

    What we need to do is stop fighting UCS vs UTMSU, we are on the same page here. What we need to do is find a new way to keep our Froshees engaged and do what we as Frosh leaders and coordinators set out to do— offer our Froshees an opportunity to create memories that will last a lifetime, give them the opportunity to learn, and a chance to meet new people.

    Right now, we

  • Chris Macharia N

    Saaliha Malik you are dead wrong on this one!

    UCS gives back to students more than any other society on campus, UTMSU is a shadow in terms of perfomance regarding student life on campus especially given their budget and campaign slogans!

    Taking away the right to cheer, also takes away the freedom of speech. It is not a school rule this is part of the Canadian constitution. Cheering at UCS social events is done in good faith, not derogatory to anyone directly, and it is humourous for everyone involved. Very importantly it is voluntary. Students actually pay to participate in these events.

    On a lighter note;
    One: From an economics point of view, what we have is product differentiation, where rezfrosh is mild, UTMSU frosh is sweet and sour, UCS frosh is simply HOT. Just because you cant eat hot wings it does not mean that the restaurant should not cook them. If they stopped cooking them on your account; you are being very selfish and concieted. (Irrational and not being a profit maximizer P=MC)
    Two: An optimal solution is that an IMPARTIAL body creates “cheer tax” this will work like “Stephan Dion’s carbon tax” for everyone whole day of wanted and allowed cheers then $X would be handed to an organization that caters for sexual harassment victims. This tax will have to be optimal in the sense that, persons who cheer are not taxed for exercising their freedom of speech and expression. A line has o be drawn between you being a high school prefect and the university moulding responsible citizens for tomorrow.

    I am very dissapointed in the way that UTMSU is using our hard earned resources for investigations instead of scholarships!

  • Vir

    Let’s grow up. The real world isn’t middle school. Go to any other university and you’ll experience things much more faux pas. Again, grow up, and find something substantive to complain about

  • Razan

    Again, addressing Chris M., get over the student fees issue.

    Money will always be spent in many facets of our campus and different initiatives. This is probably the least of your concerns.

    Why not talk about money being spent on more events rather than overstaffing? Anything along that line.

    Be realistic.

  • Sarah

    Get over it. Those cheers are gone. THANK GOD.

  • Hosain

    I think people need to actually read the article before they start blaming UTMSU.

    FACT: Two students filed a complaint to UTMSU about the derogatory nature of the cheers at bizfrosh.

    FACT: As the only students’ union representing full-time students at the Mississauga Campus, it is their obligation to act on the issue.

    FACT: UTMSU worked for the past 4 months with UCS to implement a policy that will reduce the chances of their derogatory cheers taking place. After months of working with UCS and taking time to craft an effective policy, UCS decided to ignore the concerns of these students and not even make an effort to adopt the policy.

    It seems to me that UCS was given ample opportunity to address this issue. UTMSU took on the role of mediator to address the issue-yes this issue does not only concern UCS as all students are represented by UTMSU-and by virtue of not the accepting the policy, or even taking steps to address this issue, I think UCS is at FAULT.

    I would also like to know why the UCS executive would defend such lewd cheers that are blatantly immature, derogatory, and discriminatory, in light of the fact that they attend one of the best academic institutions in Canada. The fact that our so-called future leaders of commerce choose to continue on with repugnant archaic traditions is beyond me.

    Didn’t anyone consider that since the university is taking issue with this, and apparently has been for the last four years, exemplifies the serious nature of the issue.

    I go to University and expect to be in an environment inclusive of all races, genders, religions, and anything else that would marginalize individuals. From my perspective UCS looks like a bunch of door-knob FRAT BOY!

    Grow up! Get over it! And do something about it!

    Those cheers are gone and I say good-riddance!

    PS: UTMSU has also adopted a policy to change the climate of Orientation week due to complaints this year!

  • Jeremiah

    Razaan,

    I do not like your attitude in replying to the comments to some of the members here.

    We are all very respectful to the situation, and by YOU saying “Student Fees are none of your concern, so butt out of it!” is absolutely unprofessional and uncalled for. We pay the student fees, we pay your salary, and we want to see results, not cases about marginal cases like this. You are only fueling a debate and rivalry amongst the two groups by stomping your foot down with the authority you have been given. It is an injustice, and in a way, discriminatory towards the commerce students.

    Do you like Math? I know you do so here’s some math. Just for you:

    200 attendees at bizfrosh
    198 love it
    2 complained

    198 * $389(student fees) = $ 77 022
    2 * $389 = $ 778

    whats better? :)

  • Iverson

    Jeremiah,

    I think you’re failing to see the point! It’s not about the numbers, its about the principle, and the chants were both lewd and unacceptable. Given what you’ve said earlier, I can’t see how you would endorse the comments.

    For example, if 2 students complain about antisemitism on campus, should we shut them up just because there are only two of them? Do you really think all the other 198 people at BizFrosh loved every single chant? I don’t see how protecting people’s rights is a waste of student fees. It is obvious that the cost of such a proceeding would be absolutely insignificant.

  • Razan

    Thank you Iverson.

    I highly agree.

    Jeremiah, I happen to know a thing or two about math, that comes with my knowledge of planning and executing several large scale events for the UTM population. Saving the cost of the event while maximizing impact is what I do best. So… thank you for that short rant.

    Being familiar with needs of students of all backgrounds I always feel that I should do my best to make events accessible and user-friendly to all participants. If it costs me an extra $30 to order gluten-free pizza for 1 student out of 300 I would. It makes everyone feel part of the group and part of a community that accepts them.

    The same would go for cheers and even to the simplest thing as having options that allow members to feel part of the group. Derogatory cheers and drinking never brings people together as UCS may say it does.

    That’s all.

  • Razan

    Jeremiah,

    One more note: during my time as Minister of Student Life and Associate VP Campus Life I was unpaid. I had no salary.

    Perhaps you should do some research before making random comments. Do your homework as a “professional” would.

    Thank you.

  • Editor

    Most of you might not realize this. But we here at The Medium are privy to all comments that get posted here. Meaning also that we “accept” and “reject” all comments. So far, I personally have been very lenient with the censoring, omitting only useless comments such as “F*%# UCS,” “Screw UTMSU” and “F*%# The Medium.” Everything else, some of which still carry a slight condemning undertone, has been passed. Simple reason for this — we have always encouraged reader participation, and if this is generating as much of that as we

  • Ivan

    Calling UCS a bunch of frat boys is just hilarious considering you’re arguing for everyone to be inclusive. Believe it or not lots of UTM students are active members of fraternities downtown.

    Like I said before, if we’re going to put BizFrosh and UCS under the microscope, other events are sure to follow.

    This is halfway to dress codes at halloween pub(bye bye shirtless firefighters/skanky schoolgirls)/sex pub/100% pg-13 cheers at frosh etc. All for the sake of not offending anyone.

    Do we really want that?

  • Jackie

    “So far, I personally have been very lenient with the censoring, ”
    So does that mean in the past you have not???
    And depending on what you see here you may restrict some comments??

    Mr. Editor are you black-maiiing us???

    You can’t hold a iron fist over our heads …
    Let democracy speak for itself!!
    Let UTM speak.. if they are upset let them voice their opinion.

    Comments are great! They get to show others what people really think..

    Also for you this means you reported on a good issue! It should really be a compliment for you.

    • http://www.matthewfilipowich.ca Matthew Filipowich

      Jackie, I have been personally accepting the comments as they come in, and let me tell you, Monday I was up pretty late approving comments to ensure the dialogue could continue on this issue. Just to comment on your question about ‘censoring’ and ‘black mailing’ on themedium.ca, our policy is that anything containing profanity, threats, or direct, extreme insults will be censored and or removed- I think maybe you misinterpreted Ali’s comment. As for this article, there has been no profanity, or as Ali pointed out, “F*%# UCS,” “Screw UTMSU” and “F*%# The Medium.” so we havn’t had to take any action – and I’m pretty happy because of this.

      Thank you for the compliment as well, I am also very happy that we have been able to create such a dialogue on campus. I would also like to encourage anyone who wants to discuss this further to write a blog post, tell us your thoughts in a post that will be posted in our blog section. Click here to sign up. Just put UCS in the subject and we’ll email you a password and instructions.

      Thanks,

      -Matthew Filipowich

  • Chris Macharia

    Saaliha Malik’s attitude regarding other students needs is very disappointing; given her job description and role is to promote equity for ALL (read majority) students not two!!!. Do not forget alot of students want and pay for the status quo.

    UTMSU scholarships not investigations!!! Razan; why spend a whole day protesting fees only to squander the meagre resources we have on something we dont need. – not personal

  • Grade 2 Student

    The definition for ALL is EVERYONE not majority!

    2 students mean not everyone.

  • Saaliha Malik

    Chris Macharia,

    Incase you are not familiar with my job description let me help clarify matters for you according to the University of Toronto Mississauga Students

  • Jay

    Saaliha,

    “I hope everyone can understand that this issue is not about whether the chants are appropriate or not because the University of Toronto has recognized the fact that these chants are NEVER to happen again”….are you sure?

    Because clearly that is what its ALL about…

  • pickles09

    I just want to say that it is about time UCS gets the negative attention it deserves. Every single year the club is made up of insensitive student leaders who do nothing for the commerce student body. This year I do see a huge change in attitude by the executives as they are really trying to revamp the UCS experience for commerce students by adding many events. I commend them for this as last years council fell short of doing anything related to their positions. HOWEVER concerning the recent debate on the bizfrosh chants I find it such a shame that some people find the chants to be appropriate, especially some of the women who are leaving a comment saying it is okay. I don’t get why there is a need to have those chants. Someone mentioned if you are not okay with it you shouldn’t participate but who the hell goes to university to hear derogratory terms from their fellow classmates? I find it hilarious how some of the executives on UCS preach about professionalism and being the leaders of tomorrow but then they go and allow such activities to be held under their supervision.

    I commend the two students who came forward and voiced their opinion. I really hope your voices get heard and UCS gets penalized for such behaviour. For everyone else who is pro UCS go out into the real world and find a better club to be a fan of. UCS is ran by a bunch of power hungry students who use our membership fees to go on end of the year retreats just for themselves. I hope this investigation prolongs. I don’t care if my money is being used to get the investigation happening because UCS has been eating up my money for the last four years for riduculous things.

    And for the ladies who thought the chants were okay, go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you would let yourself become a mockery by men.

  • Ivan

    Well this will surely set an interesting precedent for future events.

    I suppose it’s all fine and dandy until it’s YOUR club getting scrutinized.

    If you find yourself saying “Man, UTM is so lame, we never have any fun events” or “frosh is so lame” or “I can’t believe our halloween pub has a dresscode” sometime in the near future, don’t be surprised.

  • Ivan

    Maybe we should do away with frosh chants all together and instead have 5 days of “play fair” for orientation week.

  • Jeremiah

    I can appropriate certain people taking the high ground and defending the minority, in this case the ratio happens to be 1:99. To make this 1% feel more inclusive you’re jeopardizing the experience (they clearly enjoy it, or they wouldn’t be doing it) and excluding the voice of the other 99%. You’re pretty much telling the 99% that if they don’t like the experience that the 1% dictates, they can go **** themselves.

    Personally, I do not enjoy the chants either, but I also don’t find it offensive. They are just words, not even directed at anyone. Obviously anyone intelligent enough to get into University of Toronto should be able to figure that out. They are just poking fun at the cliche university frat stereotypes.

    People need to grow up a little, we’re all adults already.

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah

  • Ivan

    Playfair was pretty fun wasn’t it? All those new friends! I’m still best friends with my playfair group.

  • Laurel

    I am appalled by the reaction of so many students regarding this problem.

    The chants that have gone on during bizfrosh and UTMSU frosh are descriminatory and sexist.
    I have yet to read one legitimate argument explaining why cheers of this nature are acceptable. If you don’t like it, then don’t participate. Other frosh events have worse cheers. NONE OF THIS MAKES SEXIST CHEERS ACCEPTABLE.

    Imagine if the cheers were of a racist, rather than sexist nature. No one would stand for it. There would be a campus-wide uproar! And the university would put a stop to the racist cheers. But sexist cheers? They don’t really matter because its just a joke and anyone who is against it is just a “fun sucker”.

    Why is it okay in a university environment to gather in groups and chant about women (and apparently, in some instances, underage women) and descriminate against them? Even if these chants are done “jokingly”, it certainly doesn’t ensure that all participants are aware of that.

    I challenge someone to explain how cheers of this nature, which single out and discriminate against a minority, contribute to the bonding experience that frosh week should be.

  • Jeremiah

    Laurel,

    To discriminate is to treat someone differently based on perceived differences. No one is doing anything of the sort, nor is any minority singled out. As to how it forwards the bonding experience; the simple fact is if one can yell these embarrassing remarks at the top of their lungs with others, they will feel less excluded and less shy.

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah

  • Jeremiah
  • Jeremiah

    Jeremiah #109,

    You speak the truth, I wish more people would grow up, the real world isn’t so sensitive. Why must 198 people conform to the standards of 2?

    Thanks,
    Jeremiah, the voice of the people.

  • Mandy

    “And for the ladies who thought the chants were okay, go look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself how you would let yourself become a mockery by men.” – pickles09

    And…exactly who are you to tell an entire gender what they should and should not find acceptable? Maybe some females can realize a joke when they hear it, and know not to find it offensive. It is laughable that you are writing that under the guise of concern for women

  • Emily

    Why is there discussion?

    What they did was inappropriate. End of story. The reps need to write hand written apology notes to the students affected.

    Then they need to host an open bar event with lots of free food. Just to make sure we know they are sorry.

    Then they need to pay professional writing students to write the chants for next year. Which will likely have to be approved. I quote $25 per chant.

    To all the whiners: it happened, get over it.

  • Just sayin’

    There are many many fun cheers out there that are not about rape or jacking off.

  • Iverson

    “Hello, My Name is Jeremiah.

    I am a Man of God.
    I go to church 2 times a week, observe all the holidays and moments that are involved with the Good Book.”

    “They are just words, not even directed at anyone.”

    I don’t understand how chants about pedophilia are ‘just’ words. Once again, you’re assuming that only 1% find these chants offensive, when in reality a lot of people at BizFrosh didn’t enjoy hearing them at all. If 1% don’t appreciate hearing chants about pedophilia (and we know its more than 1% for sure) why do we assume they are wrong? The thing is, UCS can make chants about rape and due to the gang mentality of bizfrosh, I’m sure people would be chanting those too. If UCS was its own private club that would be okay, but they are supposed to represent all commerce students and there is no alternative. The university needs to make sure all the students are represented.

  • Iverson

    Once again, talking about pedophilia and chants in such a manner are obviously far from the religion of Christianity (only because you bought that up initially). Respecting others’ rights is pretty important as well.

  • Meghan

    UCS is filled with smart students.

    it`s true. Can`t they come up with cheers that aren`t about rape or jacking off?

  • SS

    To UTMSU

    You have spoke enough about BIZFROSH, and don

  • SS

    I believe that future students who are planning to go to UTM should be aware that all events from now until they graduate would be PG13.

    We should also inform them that they will be treated as children and there is no development from high school to university.

    Lets also banish all social groups, since one way or another they have offended someone.

    As mentioned before we have Sex club, what about Queer week its offensive, How about diversity week which solely became a week of one religion after the Monday. How about Mardi Gras sole name is to promote topless women.

    Better lets banish everything.

    UTM is a bore, if its not school that screws you over its your student council that you voted that will screw you over.

  • Jackie

    Whatever happens with these chants.

    I certainly hope that the Commerce Management adminstration will see that there is a huge student outcry against the necessity of engaging in an extra investigation into this matter. Many students believe this investigation is out of proportion.
    And whatever the end result is – ban the chants or not…

    THIS SHOULD NOT IN ANY WAY AFFECT THE RESULTS OF ALLOWING THE SKI TRIP HAPPEN!

    don’t take away the one thing that commerce students look forward to before exams as a result of a few minority dissents to childish chants!!!

    DON’T TAKE AWAY THE SKI TRIP

    DON’T TAKE AWAY MY UCS EXPERIENCE!!

  • Razan

    Chris M.,

    You said, “UTMSU scholarships not investigations!!! Razan; why spend a whole day protesting fees only to squander the meagre resources we have on something we dont need. – not personal”

    I understand that your message was not personal however, for me to spend February 7th protesting against high tuition fees is completely different than you protesting the use of fees on an investigation. I was the Minister of Student Life and besides organizing events I was there to represent students and show my concern for rising tuition fees. These fees were being increased with no real justification.

    When it comes to your concern on money let me assure you it is Saaliha Malik’s job to take on such complaints as well is a responsibility for Student Affairs. I do not see where you are getting the idea that extra loads of cash is being thrown at the issue. There will be meetings, there will be discussions; this will happen between people who are paid to do so and no excess money will be spent aimlessly.

    To Jeremiah,

    You said, “Personally, I do not enjoy the chants either, but I also don

  • JnS

    Great discussion.

    Particularly like pickles09 comment, you hit it right on the head.

    SS: Before you post a comment on the story, you should probably want to know what the NAME of the newspaper is. Medium, not MEDIAN. Wow…

  • Meghan

    Oh yeah…one more thing.
    UCS is filled with smart students.

    Can`t UCS come up with cheers that aren`t about rape or jacking off?

  • Johnny Ho

    Exactly! Meghan! … I am sure UCS can do it! Woohoo!~

  • Lana S

    I agree with jackie

    Don’t take away my ski trip!

    I couldn’t even afford to go to frosh and decided to save up for ski trip..

    Why should the outcome of this investigation trump my right to go to the ski trip??

  • Jessie

    DON’T TAKE AWAY MY SKI TRIP

    SKI TRIP IS INDEPENDENT FROM THE FROSH EVENT!

    THERE ARE NO CHANTS!!

    DON’T TAKE IT AWAY!!!

  • Razan

    The ski trip is not going to be taken away.

    It has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    Stay calm folks. Stay calm.

  • Stolly

    Many of my current friends I made over cheers, flag making, secretive drinking and the bizfrosh games. They are all bonding experiences with a humorous flare. If I ever felt insulted, uncomfortable or unhappy I would have ceased. If I ever felt that I was insulting/slandering/ harming anyone in any way I would have ceased. Fact is, everything is done in good humor, without a hint of maliciousness. I would have thought it obvious that the words of the cheers are not to be taken literally.

    As young adults you are exposed to various types of fun. Choose the ones you prefer and surround yourself in them. As Ivan demonstrated, Playfair, while exceptionally PG themed does little to stand out or make an impact.

  • Chris Macharia N

    Saaliha,
    Your stand on “cheers” is correct some are extreme, but also in another area; I personally think that before the “persons” who bought the bizfrosh tickets, bought them, they should have adequately been informed by the person selling the ticket about details of the event. The seller should have offered them more information to allow the two people to make an informed decision. Which is an honest misdemeanor that should not end up in the principals office.
    “If there is a mosquitoe on your arm, you would not rest the arm on an anvil and smash the mosquitoe using a sledge hammer? Even if the arm Is not yours that is still an extreme stand.”
    You digressed from the topic by mentioning UTMSU vs UCS. I sincerely hope you meant this as a joke as no one sees it that way.
    You also digressed again by the rent a date comment. This I do not quite understand, what does it have to do with colourful cheers.
    I honestly think that you have done a good job at taking off colourful cheers from the University’s list of allowable activities.The problem is that the externalities that will come with this; the university will turn into more of a high school than it is currently, not to mention that the cost of policing will increase. (ie) if we are so afraid of being run over at a stop sign that, we have a policeman at every stop sign the cost will outweigh the benefits and we will never stop being afraid and policing fears;
    ps: I am Not saying that the chants are Not offensive.
    In the above statement cost is an analogy, What I mean is that we can regulate everyone as much as possible but rarely will optimal equity be acheived. I think self regulation of societies is a better solution than of total blanketing. Honestly from your position it must be tough as there is no optimal chant.
    I think you are very busy and I would not want to impede your schedule; for this reason I politely decline the opportunity to meet with you.

  • Sally

    Do you guys know the phrase “Pot calling the kettle black?”

    because thats what the majority of you are doing at this point.

  • p2p

    chris ur comments make no sense. sometimes plain english goes a long way.

  • SS

    P2P
    DO you attend UFT, or York. Some quotes are best understood when you use your head.

    If I where you I’d drop out and start flipping burgers at McD.

    JnS
    Regardless of the papers name.. If your photo was displayed what would you do?

  • JnS

    I would drop out and start flipping burgers at McD.

  • JnS

    Ps. Congratulations, Stolly. You just exposed yourself with the “secretive drinking.”

    Can’t people “bond” without insulting one another? You don’t need to make events completely PG but you don’t have to take it to the other extreme either to the point that it is harmful, hurtful, degrading, or however you’d like to word it.

  • Stolly

    Secretive drinking, that is, without the knowledge of the Bizfrosh Committee.

    Thats just it JnS, you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. The ‘insults’ are done without truthfulness, which is obvious. We are not insulting each other, do you think I would like people who insulted me all the time? Do you think any friendships would be made if people took the cheers seriously? Obviously not. I recognise that there is absolutely no maliciousness or intent behind the cheers, it is simply friendly banter. And yes, this plays a huge part in bonding opening a faucet for a student to feel accepted, part of something and noticed.

    Also,

    ‘Extreme’ is subjective. Someone else’s extreme may be another persons mild. Remember that.

  • Mary

    Being the nerd that I am, I was just watching “lie to me.” where they kind of do some overview of emotions and psychology. One of the themes last week was “Hazing”.

    From Wikipedia:

    “Hazing is a ritualistic test and a task involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a person into a gang, club, military organization or other group. The definition can refer to either physical (sometimes violent) or mental (possibly degrading) practices. It may also include nudity or sexually oriented activities”

    Hazing is also a rituals that promote unity through understanding of suffering that is to be endured (in this case being a student). If one doesn’t go through with the hazing they’re looked down upon.

    HMMMMMMMMMM….

  • Ivan

    haha I saw that episode too

  • Chris

    Interesting discussion and a really good article.